Oswald Cobblepot may be banished from Gotham City, but it won't be long before the future Penguin and Detective Jim Gordon once again cross paths in Fox's "Gotham."
Just don't expect a fight scene, says Robin Lord Taylor, starring in his biggest role since graduating in 2000 from Northwestern University, where he roomed with his best friend, Billy Eichner (of "Billy on the Street" fame) and was in the same class as actress Kristen Schaal.
"I would say my favorite relationship in the show is the relationship between Oswald and [Jim Gordon]," Taylor said during a recent phone conversation from New York, where he has lived since graduating and where "Gotham" films. "We need each other as much as we are adversaries and I think that dynamic is just so rich and just really exciting to play."
In the premiere, Gordon was ordered to kill Cobblepot but instead helped him escape the city after Cobblepot was caught snitching on his gangster boss, Fish Mooney (Jada Pinkett Smith). Cobblepot and Gordon likely will have different views on their relationship in the future.
"To him, I'm sort of the albatross around his neck," Taylor said of his character. "And I owe him my life. I believe Oswald really does take that extremely seriously and really does consider [Jim] an actual ally in his own twisted way."
Cobblepot returns to Gotham City in the Batman origins drama's Oct. 6 episode, but he's already become something of a breakout character despite sporadic screen time. That's in great part due to Taylor's sympathetic yet twisted take on the waddling one.
Taylor's own high school experiences helped inform his portrayal of Cobblepot's fragile confidence, his outsider status and his reaction to being bullied. Growing up in a small, sports-oriented Iowa town, Taylor acted in plays and was on the speech team-definitely not the most popular pursuits at school.
"I wasn't bullied to anywhere near the way that Oswald was," he said. "But I did know what it felt like to be different. I did know what is was like being interested in things that were not the norm. There were names called and all of that."
Ben McKenzie, who plays Gordon in "Gotham" long before he becomes the police commissioner who famously works with Batman, believes the "phenomenally talented" Taylor lends Cobblepott a sweetness that comes to life on the show.
"Obviously he's playing more of a demented guy, but ... his charm comes through on screen, and you end up kind of loving this little weasley henchman and almost rooting for him," McKenzie said during a separate call. "I think it's a brilliant turn and it's largely unlike anything you've seen from Penguin before."
Taylor betrays his Midwestern roots by modestly giving credit to those around him, from show creator Bruno Heller to special effects, makeup and hair crew members to his "lovely wardrobe assistant, Kyle," who suggested he put a bottle cap in his shoe to help him do the Penguin waddle.
"I was like-genius! This is brilliant," he said. "I've worn it every day and now it's something that I like having there because it brings it back to reality for me."
Martin Greenfield, the man who creates the suits Taylor wears as Cobblepott, also gets special mention. Greenfield also makes the suits President Obama wears, Taylor was quick to point out. "Which is really awesome," he said, laughing. "That's one of my favorite things about the whole experience was meeting that guy."
Not much about his "Gotham" experience has been underwhelming for Taylor, who claims to have watched "Batman Returns" about 500 times while growing up. He never expected, however, to become part of Batman history.
"Not one bit. Never, never imagined it. Never possibly," he said. "Even when I graduated school and living in New York and auditioning, I just wanted to work and it didn't matter what it was. I just wanted to keep working and have health insurance and not do anything else. ... It's so beyond what I ever expected or ever imagined would happen. It's just amazing."
Taylor and I talked more about Oswald, his time at Northwestern and why "Fish Mooney is a tough, tough bitch."
But first, watch a Taylor scene from Episode 2:
Tell me about your time at Northwestern. What did you do while you were here?
I learned a lot and I grew a lot. [Laughs.] No, it was really funny actually. I grew up in Iowa and so we took a lot of trips to Chicago as a family. There was one day where we took a limo ride up Sheridan Road. And I remember the driver saying to us like, "Oh, that's Northwestern University" and then he said to me-I was a kid but he was like, "You would be so lucky to go there."
And so from that moment it was just sort of in my brain. And there was a little period where I thought I was going to be an architect and so I went to architecture camp at Washington University in St. Louis. And learned that I did not want to be an architect-at all.
And so then I started doing research about Northwestern. I knew they had an amazing theater department even though at the time I wasn't totally sure that's what I wanted to do. But when you apply, they have you declare a major. And because the only thing that I was concretely interested in, I put it down. That was the best thing that I ever did. I mean the second I was there I just-it just was right, you know?
It was a good fit.
Yeah, a perfect fit. And then just ... the way they designed the program and the fact that it's not a conservatory. I studied many other things. It just really was ideal for me. And then also the acting program itself, it was just an amazing experience. I had an excellent teacher, Ann Woodworth, who changed my life. I know that sounds hackneyed, but she definitely did.
At Northwestern did you do anything for fun outside of school? Did you come into Chicago a lot or did you just stay up in Evanston?
No, once I had my car on campus, we'd go out on trips downtown. The Second City was a huge thing that we would go to. Actually a bunch of my friends and I, we were able to see an incarnation of-Tina Fey and Rachel Dratch had a show called "Dratch and Fey"-which ultimately like propelled them to superstardom. We actually got to see that, which was an amazing experience. I had also seen other shows downtown because the theater scene in Chicago is just amazing.
Are any of your classmates your contemporaries now?
Oh yeah, definitely. Billy Eichner from "Billy on the Street" and also "Parks and Recreation" is, without any exaggeration, he is my best friend. We were roommates in college and then roommates in New York City. We moved to New York together and we actually did a comedy show in New York together, which sort of helped discover his talent for accosting strangers on the street and asking them insane popular culture questions. So yeah, he's my best friend.
I also was in the same year as Kristen Schaal, who is a fantastic actress. From the second we were all there together, we all looked at Kristen and we were like, "Oh, she's the star." She's the star because there's just something about her that is so like amazing and genuine and she's always had that like quirkiness and that spark and just amazing brains that. Like, "Yes, Kristen-Kristen is the one." Do you know what I mean?
She's great.
And then I was lucky back at Northwestern, I was part of the New York Showcase, in which they audition all of the seniors and then they send 10 of us to New York to do scenes for casting directors and managers and all that. And I got to do a scene with Kristen Schaal from "Raised in Captivity," the play by Nicky Silver. And I still look back at it as being like one of my favorite on-stage moments. We're just kids and to be able to have that moment with Kristen was just really a dream come true. And then to see all the wonderful amazing things that have happened to her has just been so validating. It's just so perfect.
Quick question about your name. Do you prefer Robin Taylor or Robin Lord Taylor?
I prefer Robin Lord Taylor only because there's another Robin Taylor in the union and it's just my actual full name, too. I know it sounds like I'm like putting on airs or something. [Laughs.] But when I knew that there was another Robin Taylor it was like, "Oh God, do I change my name?" And then I went through a million different potential last names and I was like, "No, screw it. It's just going to be my full name. I'm going to do the real name thing. It's gonna be fine."
Penguin is a name that Oswald hates people to call him. Do you have any nicknames?
Do I have nicknames? When I was growing up, Robinsky was a name that I was called, which I never had a problem with. And that of course evolved into Binsk and then Binsky and then the one that really got me that my cousins still torment me to this day is Beenie Boy, which now it's kind of funny, but back then I did not find it very funny. They would use that to really get me.
Did you wear a beanie or something?
No, I don't know where it came from. But, man, I was so annoyed by it.
Were you a theater kid in high school, too?
I was, yeah. I was in all the plays. I was on the speech team and I did mock trial. But I grew up in a very, very small town and a very, very sports-oriented small town [Shueyville, Iowa] so it wasn't the most popular thing or the most talked about thing at the school [Solon High School]. But at the same time it was a great place to grow up and it was a great opportunity because I was able to be in a whole list of plays and be really involved in it in a really fantastic way.
Are you able to draw on things that happened in high school playing Oswald, who appears to have been picked upon a lot?
Yeah, ... when I started doing research on the character and I had read that Oswald was a bullied kid and even in one of the comics he wears a Shakespeare costume to school. He wears an outfit from I think it was "Romeo and Juliet" to school and he was promptly beaten for it. I was like, "OK, I get it, I get it. This is something that I understand." Not that I was ever beaten up but it was definitely something that helped me key into the character and it was something that I identified with.
What inspired your take on Oswald? I saw a tweet of yours that you said you saw "Batman Returns" 500 times.
Yes, definitely. ... It was on HBO every day for like seven times a day right at that age where you watch movies over and over again and they never get old. And so I've always had that in my mind.
But in the creation of this character, my initial inspiration is just the character Bruno Heller has created. I mean the second I received the pilot script it was just very, very clear where he wanted to go with the character and it just completely jelled with what I saw in the character as well.
After doing research I talked to Geoff Johns, who is the head of DC [Comics] and I asked him if there are any comics out there that I should be aware of about the Penguin and where he comes from and I would go look them up. He's like, "No, no, just send me your address." I got a personal like package from Geoff Johns, which is like I know I'm gonna be completely nerdy out about this but it was just amazing. And in it he had included a couple comics including "Penguin: Pain and Prejudice," where it really dove into his backstory and the stories of him being bullied for his appearance and for his interests. And after doing that research it all just sort of crystallized into what ended up on screen.
I have to give so much credit to the designers of the show. The special effects director Dave Presto, our hair person Theresa Siliceo and the costume designer Lisa Padovani, who works on "Boardwalk [Empire]." The work that they created for the character definitely helped solidify who this person is. It makes my job so much easier. ... Once the [fake] nose comes on and the hair gets done and then I put on these amazing suits ... it's stepping into his skin. It just informs so much about who he is and where he is coming from in his life.
How long did it take you to get the walk down?
The walk. [Laughs.] It's an actual physical injury ... so it wasn't like some sort of awkward, exaggerated kind of Charlie Chaplin thing. Understanding what that meant was extremely helpful.
I practiced it around the apartment. I was just walking in circles like trying to do it and figure it out. And then on the day we get to the set when it first happens-that big scene on the pier before I go in the water. I was there with Danny Cannon, the director of the first two episodes. He was right there with me and together we helped sort of create it and make it into a realistic thing that's not too exaggerated but it evokes the waddle but also makes sense in the physical way.
I heard when you practiced you put a bottle cap in your shoe.
I still do actually. [Laughs.] I still do, yeah. It's still in there. ... Again, it solidifies the character for me in this great physical way. Also it's an old Stella Adler trick. So any time you can pull out one of those you know you're really doing it.
Ben McKenzie told me about that pier scene in the pilot. And he said that the whole time you guys were doing take after take and he kept grabbing your collar. He said that after several takes he saw your chest and it was all red, but you hadn't complained once until four hours into shooting.
Ben totally goes for [it] and it's amazing. And so do I. And that the things, it's something like four hours and we're in the cold and that scene is just so visceral and intense. I actually didn't even notice it. It was a wardrobe person who came up and was fixing me before the scene and happened to look and was like, "Ohh!"
I looked and it was all red and everything. And I was like, "I'm OK, that's fine." It was one of those things where I don't want to hold him back and I don't want to hold back either. I also didn't want him to feel self-conscious or anything. So when we went back I said, "Maybe just go for the lapel maybe just a little bit more. Or not, whatever."
Since it was the pilot our first really big scene together. It was just such an important scene. Actually, I enjoyed every second of it. I mean he can rough me up all he wants, you know? [Laughs.]
So who scares you more, Jada or Ben?
[Laughs.] Jada, completely. I would have to say Fish instead of Jada because, I mean, Jada herself could not be more nice or down-to-earth and just giving as a scene partner. You come into something like this and this is the biggest thing I've ever done. And she's one of the biggest stars that I've ever worked with. And you have all these preconceived notions about celebrity and especially someone of her caliber. And then to have her just embrace me with open arms and like just be there, I feel so lucky. Everyone just is so like heartfelt and like we're all in this together and it just feels like a family at this point.
But when we're in character, there's just something about Jada. Her poise and the energy and her eyes is really truly chilling, which from actor's view it's just so exciting to be with someone like that because then that informs me. I mean, Fish Mooney is a tough, tough bitch. I can say that.
I do love that the waddle comes from her smashing you with the bat.
Exactly. There's a connection with the bat to her and then it's something that like Oswald and she will share forever. She marked me, like she completely changed him physically and in every other way. And to physicalize that, I think, is just so powerful. That also just charges all of those scenes. Every scene that we have together is marked by that, at least from where I'm coming from. It's really exciting. It's just so cool.
The pier scene and the scene with you and Jada set ups up a great three-way dynamic. Will Oswald be helpful to Gordon and try to outdo Fish. Talk about those relationships going forward.
I would say the Penguin's strength is that he is so ambitious and so intelligent and he reads people very well. He plays people off of each other to get his own wishes fulfilled in that way. He sees this opportunity with [Jim] as really something that he can use toward helping him achieve the power that he wants to achieve. But at the same time I think he really does have an affection for him. Whether or not it's reciprocated, that's a different story.
And in terms of [Fish Mooney], Oswald has learned everything he knows about the underworld of Gotham City from her. And because she has marked him and because they have this history they're always going to be connected. I think she tries to take his power away and I think he's going to get it back. At some point, in some fashion that's his goal.
Oswald seems kind of fragile at times, but then bashes one guy, kills others. Talk about the scene where he beats the guy with Fish's bat.
He's been a powerless person his entire life and all he wants is to not be that way anymore. And then to have someone actually hand him something and say, "Yeah, it's OK, be the badass for once. Be the one who beats and don't be the one who's getting beaten." I think it's so exciting for him. It's a real important moment for him in terms of just realizing his own power.
To you he's more than just a psychopath, right?
I believe so. Like I said before it's not a black and white thing. His motivations come from a real place and also there is something sympathetic about that. There's something sympathetic about all the people in the show. ... Learning where they're coming from, you can't help but feel sympathy for them in a way. Like when you understand someone's story, no matter what they've gone through, there's sympathy there.
Are you happy to be shooting in New York since you left Chicago?
It's a dream come true. I don't have to get a car. It's fantastic. It's the best thing I ever. Like I said, I moved here after college and to be able to sleep in my own bed, wake up, look outside and there's a van out there to pick me up. ... It's just brilliant. The energy of the show and the connection between New York City and Gotham City is just so strong.
They must really love the Penguin arc because the Fox press kit has Penguin's umbrella in it.
I did hear that. Yeah, it's pretty wild. And at the premiere there were like umbrellas everywhere. All the catering staff were dressed exactly like me. I still can't process that.
For you is that a little bizarre?
Yeah, it's bizarre. I don't want to sound cheesy but when you spend so long wanting something and then you get it and then ... it's actually part of American pop culture history. On this 75th year of Batman existing, it's just really intense and foreign and scary. I'm completely inarticulate about it. I feel like I'm going to be that way for the rest of my life.
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