Sequels can be tricky business. But on their second album as Run the Jewels (simply titled "Run the Jewels 2"), Brooklyn rapper/producer El-P and Atlanta MC Killer Mike up the ante on their comparatively fun-loving debut, crafting highly combustible cuts that alternate between righteous anger and chest-thumping braggadocio.
"The first record was perfect for us to get in the door because we really didn't have any definition of what this project was going to be," said El-P, born Jaime Meline 39 years ago, who joined Killer Mike (aka Michael Render, also 39) for a late October phone interview. "But we started looking at groups like Outkast and UGK and [A] Tribe Called Quest and De La Soul, where you listen to the second record and say, 'They're going somewhere.' We knew going in we had to step it up to that next level."
I admire your ability to make a new friend in your late 30s. That's not an easy thing to do.
El-P: It's really not, man. It just sort of happened, and I feel really lucky. Meeting Mike and all the people we're running with right now has just been an amazing experience for me. I was very much not thinking this was going to be the next part of my life. In your 30s you feel like, "Well, I have my friends," and the ones that are really close to me I made a while ago. Because of this, I realize that doesn't have to be the case.
Was there a particular point you realized a friendship was developing rather than a more straightforward musical collaboration?
El-P: Honestly, Mike and I probably became friends within an hour of hanging with each other. We went up into the lounge of the studio and I had a cigarette and we kicked it for 45 minutes and just talked [bleep], and I was like, "I like this mother[bleeper]." I think me liking him is what led me to doing the record [Killer Mike's "R.A.P. Music," released in 2012 and produced by El-P]. I was trying to do my own record, and I wasn't thinking I was going to be working with anyone else. But I felt like I knew Mike, and when we got to talking it was like, "Damn, we're both the same age. We have a lot of the same influences. And we have a similar experience in our careers and our lives." Looking back on it now, I feel like it was meant to be.
As close as you've become, has a sense of sibling rivalry developed between the two of you? Do you feel any pressure to top one another?
El-P: Not really.
Killer Mike: The thing is you're not trying to be better than your brother; you're really trying to impress your brother. You're competing to make one another laugh or to be impressed versus trying to be better. It's probably been the healthiest thing for my rap career, period. El and I are very competitive, and we want to improve upon whatever we did last. Looking directly at someone who drives you and motivates you to go the extra yard is priceless.
Was it strange going into recording knowing you had an audience and some sense of expectation this time around?
El-P: It was different, and we knew it. We took it very seriously, like, "Yo, we've got to knock this [bleep] out of the park." We knew we had a chance to create a legacy, and there was an opportunity here to really make a statement. So, yes, there was more pressure. But the pressure came from within; we wanted to top ourselves.
There's definitely a darker tone. It's "The Empire Strikes Back" of sequels.
El-P: Exactly! It's "The Godfather [Part] II." It's "The Empire Strikes Back." It's more powerful. I think when you [finish listening to] this record you've been through some [bleep].
Obviously you recorded tracks like "Early" pre-Ferguson, but they sound particularly prescient to listen to now. Mike, you've been out front speaking about Ferguson and police brutality. How frustrating is it to see these events play out again and again year after year?
Killer Mike: Frustrating is probably the least of the words I'd use. It's terrifying, honestly. It's terrifying that the same fear my father grew up with - and he was a police officer - is the same fear I've grown with and the same fear my sons are growing up with. No group deserves to feel like the people meant to protect them will potentially take their life.
I spoke with Mavis Staples about Ferguson recently, and she said, "As long as I'm here I'm going to be fighting; my work isn't done yet." And she's 75, which points to how long this has been an issue.
Killer Mike: Exactly.
El-P: And that's sad. She shouldn't have to do that anymore. We should have gotten past this, straight up. Just as humans we should have gotten past this already. This is not a reflection of who we're supposed to be. This is a negative, dark cloud that's haunted us, and continues to haunt us. It's terrifying and sad, and more than anything it's not our destiny. Our destiny is to step away from this and move into another phase. The world has made strides, yes, but to see the bubbling darkness come up I don't know. I see a lot of people confronting it for the first time, but people like Mike have had no choice but to confront it. There's a large segment of the population where this ain't news. This is life.
Do you feel like music can play a role in bringing about change?
Killer Mike: I think music has played a role. I'm politically conscious because of Public Enemy and N.W.A. and [A] Tribe [Called Quest] and De La [Soul] and Outkast and Goodie Mob and the entire era of music in which I grew up in. I'm more of a social analyst because of records like [Ice Cube's] "Color Blind" and "Black Korea," and [Public Enemy's] "Black Steel in the Hour of Chaos." I am a better person and thinker because KRS-One did "Questions and Answers." Absolutely music has a role to play. There will always be an opportunity to edu-tain: to entertain while dropping some chins on an audience.
El-P: Music can feel empowering, or it can give a natural emotional voice to something people can't express. This is why it's beautiful. You don't have to say something directly to affect someone. You can make a piece of music without words that can capture a feeling of tragedy or struggle or anger or triumph. It's the translation of the human experience into another form. Everyone knows music can be a weapon as well. When they torture people and put them into sleep-deprivation routines and they're blasting heavy metal at them, this is not a fluke. These are people using it for darkness, and I believe it's a fact we can use it for light.
In regards to music being used for darkness: Has Taylor Swift's "Welcome to New York" chased you from the city yet, El?
El-P: No, but I'm not exactly excited about the New York gentrification theme [Laughs].
Killer Mike: I will say this: She's played her hand well. She's donating all the proceeds from [sales of the single] to public schools in New York. As a southerner I have no official opinion, but I was cool with that.
At least you guys could bond over a shared love of cats.
El-P: [Deadpans] Um, sure. [Laughs.]
Are you surprised "Meow the Jewels" is becoming a reality?
El-P: Of course I'm surprised. I wrote that [bleep] when I was stoned. I was just joking, and I didn't think it was going to happen. It's a lot less daunting now that I've recruited a bunch of friends to be involved. It was like, "Thank God Just Blaze is doing one [track]," so it's all good.
Think you can grab a feature from MC Skat Kat [from Paula Abdul's "Opposites Attract" video]?
El-P: [Laughs] He's hard to get in touch with, but I would love to try.
Andy Downing is a RedEye special contributor. @redeyechimusic @andydowning33
Run the Jewels, 5:15 p.m. ($24) and 9 p.m. (Sold out) Nov. 22 at Metro.
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Brothers in 'edu-tainment'
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